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Forum » SpaceEngine » Archive » Work progress and public beta test - 0.9.7.4
Work progress and public beta test - 0.9.7.4
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Sunday, 08.11.2015, 01:46 | Message # 751
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Quote parameciumkid ()
setting up a wormhole network would be good for getting routine missions places without having to slog through hyperdrive mechanics for every ship.


If wormholes were ever added, at least in a plausible manner, they should require you to actually travel between stars using the hyperdrive first.

Perhaps building something like this in orbit around a star


If you, or anyone else, wants to continue the discussion for gameplay mechanics I recommend moving the discussion to one of these threads http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-369-1 or http://en.spaceengine.org/forum/14-415-1





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VilfateDate: Sunday, 08.11.2015, 06:28 | Message # 752
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Quote sinsforeal ()

Will accretion disk's count as a "light source"?

I am also very curious about this ;)
however, in my opinion, in a very far distance, it shouldn't be hard to treat the disks just like normal point sources.
===
Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Only some black holes will have accretion disks.


Could you tell me what this "selection" of black holes with/without accretion disks is based on, according to the system multiplicity of the black holes?
And are these effects going to be controlled by procedural+user customisable parameters, like in stellar coronae or rings?







Edited by Vilfate - Sunday, 08.11.2015, 06:31
 
RetsofDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 00:28 | Message # 753
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Quote SpaceEngineer ()
Notice how sky become more and more blue and bright. Sky blueshift is fake, because the frame texture obviously doesn't have infrared data, but it looks very well.

I may be misunderstanding, but does this mean that blue/red-shifting is possible on ship warp effects now?
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 00:44 | Message # 754
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Quote Retsof ()
but does this mean that blue/red-shifting is possible on ship warp effects now?


It is entirely possible, but only if he adds the same rendering to the ship warps.

This sort of thing





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parameciumkidDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 07:25 | Message # 755
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I like the idea behind the red-blue shifting on the black hole. It looks absolutely great on the wide-angle shot of the accretion disk. On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.
I'm sure you're already working on tweaking it, but that's my hopefully constructive feedback.





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SalvoDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 10:06 | Message # 756
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I wish to see the new black holes in a video, it looks gorgeous. cry




The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.

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Kamil_CaderDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 14:43 | Message # 757
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Quote parameciumkid ()
I like the idea behind the red-blue shifting on the black hole. It looks absolutely great on the wide-angle shot of the accretion disk. On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.
I'm sure you're already working on tweaking it, but that's my hopefully constructive feedback.


I think in reality accretion disc would be much brighter than that, and no background stars would be visible. SpaceEnginer just adjusted the graphics options for better visibility of featuers IMO.
 
InariusDate: Monday, 09.11.2015, 14:56 | Message # 758
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Quote
I think in reality accretion disc would be much brighter than that, and no background stars would be visible. SpaceEnginer just adjusted the graphics options for better visibility of featuers IMO.


I did't really know. I thought they were very visible, but more in X-ray and Gamma Ray than visible light ?
 
HarbingerDawnDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 12:12 | Message # 759
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Quote parameciumkid ()
On the close-up, however, it looks a little tacky, with colors that seem a little too vivid to be realistic.

He already stated that it's not realistic, and can't be since SE does not contain infrared or ultraviolet image information, which would be needed for realistic colors.





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SpaceEngineerDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 14:39 | Message # 760
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Accretion disk is indeed overwhelmingly bright. I made some computations using analythic model (alpha-disk model) for accretion disk around Sagittarius A* in the Milky Way center. Using it's mass of 4.2 million solar masses and realistic accretion rate (3 Earth masses per year), I derived this temperature profile:

max temperature at 4.3 Schwarzschild radii - 96,000K
temperautre at 1000 Schwarzschild radii, where SE rendering stops for now - 2600K (still too bright)
temperature at 3600 Schwarzschild radii - 1000K (so rendering radius in SE should be increased 4x times)

Matter at 96,000K have extremely high brightness. According to the Stefan-Bolzmann law, surface brightness is proportional to T4. So 96,000K is 80,000 times brighter than Sun's surface. It will be saturated to white in SE if exposure is more than 0.0001.

Screenshots here showing accretion disk around Sgr A* with different levels of exposure: 1, 0.01, 0.0001:







Temperature in accretion disk around stellar black hole with high accretion rate is even more extreme. For 5 solar mass black hole, eating 0.001 solar mass per year, it will be 330 million Kelvins at 4.3 Schwarzschild radii and 10 million Kelvins at 1000 Schwarzschild radii. Temperature falling down to 1000 Kelvins only at 200 million Schwarzschild radii, or 20 AU from the black hole. This means what stellar black hole's accretion disk can't be such cold, because it's outer edge lies much closer - defined by orbit of the secondary stellar companion, which feeding the black hole with its own matter.

This also means what SE cannot render accretion disks realistically, at least for now. SE can't render temperatures more than 100,000 K (all higher will have the same color and brightness) and can't render accretion disks of any radius (1000 Schwarzschild radii is limit for now). I am forced to use some cheats like smooth falloff of the disk's outer edge and limiting it's maximum temperature.

Attachments: 5994384.jpg(459.8 Kb) · 9923954.jpg(197.8 Kb) · 9121083.jpg(59.4 Kb)





 
Kamil_CaderDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 15:14 | Message # 761
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...someone asked about how big accretion discs can be... So, that small dot in the centre is Sgr A*, with has the radius of ~0,06AU?... wink
 
DoctorOfSpaceDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 16:57 | Message # 762
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Those are some impressive looking accretion disks.




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Joey_PenguinDate: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 17:30 | Message # 763
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Holy geez on a cripes, look what I've missed! Just think what the quasars are like.




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Destructor1701Date: Tuesday, 10.11.2015, 22:40 | Message # 764
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That Sag A* simulation is astonishing.

I usually imagine that monster as a naked hole, but it's so much more terrifying with the disc visualised.

In reality, the disc would have more 3D structure, though, right? It would bulge thicker as you get further from the hole, wouldn't it?
Like this:



Aesthetically, I think I prefer the flat disk.

disc disk.





 
parameciumkidDate: Wednesday, 11.11.2015, 00:33 | Message # 765
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Quote HarbingerDawn ()
He already stated that it's not realistic, and can't be since SE does not contain infrared or ultraviolet image information, which would be needed for realistic colors.

Yes, I read that part. If it is indeed supposed to involve vivid, saturated colors, I'll rest my case, but my gut feeling is that the colors would be a bit more muted.
It's sort of like how the accretion disk itself, where "blue" shifted, is instead a brilliant white, while the "red" shifted part is dark orange, due to the way blackbody emissions work. But the sky in the background is bright blue, even between the stars.
What I'd imagine as a bit more believable is if a different sort of filter could be applied to the sky pixels that would increase the intensity and color temperature of the stars, but leave the black untouched.
Again, I presume SpaceEngineer has already looked into this for the release version wink





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